Comments on: Ajax hype http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/ Everything and the kitchen sink Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:05:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: cdegroot http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-87 Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:43:53 +0000 http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-87 Yup. The most maintainable forms I have in this little app are those that don't have any visual "goop" on them. A blank form, everything handled in good old honest Smalltalk code. At the moment, it's only some simple stuff, but for the next project I'll have to have an alternative for that visual stuff... (<a href="http://www.softwarewithstyle.com/" rel="nofollow">Michael Lucas-Smith</a> has something that could provide just that - he did a re-implementation of a nice web environment he did in a previous job and it looks promising. Or I'll buy a VW license for the customer and work with Seaside :-)). Yup. The most maintainable forms I have in this little app are those that don’t have any visual “goop” on them. A blank form, everything handled in good old honest Smalltalk code. At the moment, it’s only some simple stuff, but for the next project I’ll have to have an alternative for that visual stuff…

(Michael Lucas-Smith has something that could provide just that - he did a re-implementation of a nice web environment he did in a previous job and it looks promising. Or I’ll buy a VW license for the customer and work with Seaside :-) ).

]]> by: Patrick Mueller http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-86 Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:04:36 +0000 http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-86 No harm. I couldn't resist posting *something* since you mentioned "those WebConnect guys". :-) I have and had my own opinions of WebConnect, btw. I've actually never been much of a fan of visual programming, so I'm betting I made sure it was somewhat usable without the visual goop. No harm. I couldn’t resist posting *something* since you mentioned “those WebConnect guys”. :-) I have and had my own opinions of WebConnect, btw. I’ve actually never been much of a fan of visual programming, so I’m betting I made sure it was somewhat usable without the visual goop.

]]> by: cdegroot http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-85 Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:57:05 +0000 http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-85 <blockquote>You sexist!</blockquote> I deeply and humbly apologize. To my defense I can only say that "guys" is often used in a gender-neutral sense... Anyway, that the WebConnect team never considered the possibility was not meant as a criticism of WebConnect (I have my opinions on WebConnect, but that's maybe for another post), merely as an indicator that there's nothing special about AJAX support (either client- or server side), and that any decent environment will allow extensions in this direction. REST is not necessarily the server side of AJAX - Seaside is decidedly unRESTful and works just fine. But in any case, thanks for the links, I'll sure read them.

You sexist!

I deeply and humbly apologize. To my defense I can only say that “guys” is often used in a gender-neutral sense…

Anyway, that the WebConnect team never considered the possibility was not meant as a criticism of WebConnect (I have my opinions on WebConnect, but that’s maybe for another post), merely as an indicator that there’s nothing special about AJAX support (either client- or server side), and that any decent environment will allow extensions in this direction.

REST is not necessarily the server side of AJAX - Seaside is decidedly unRESTful and works just fine. But in any case, thanks for the links, I’ll sure read them.

]]> by: Patrick Mueller http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-84 Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:42:46 +0000 http://www.cdegroot.com/blog/2006/01/16/ajax-hype/#comment-84 "In fact, I used ‘Ajax’ in a VAST WebConnect project, and I’m quite sure that the IBM guys never considered that possibility." I'm one of the "original" VAST WebConnect "guys". Actually, half of the development team was female. You sexist! It's been 10 years since I've worked on it or used it. I think it's a little unfair to say that we never considered that possibility. IIRC, we did play around with JS a bit, but it was very crude back then. I don't think there was anything close to being able to do XmlHttpRequest back then. I mean, frames were freaking new! I was clearly thinking about REST though (the 'server' side of AJAX, and clearly the more interesting side of it for WebConnect), as you can see from some of my wanderings here: http://c2.com/doc/web96-pat/pat.htm (follow the image link of a hand pointing right) Notes from folks on the panel are here. Funny looking back 10 years. IIRC, Ward did his presentation by writing on slides on an overhead projector, making it difficult to keep around for posterity (did we even have scanners back then?) http://c2.com/doc/web96.html Curiously, I think I generated that HTML for the presentation with a hacked Smalltalk compiler where the presentation itself was a class, and each method was the HTML of the slide body. ahh ... the good old days of hacking the IDE and compiler :-) “In fact, I used ‘Ajax’ in a VAST WebConnect project, and I’m quite sure that the IBM guys never considered that possibility.”

I’m one of the “original” VAST WebConnect “guys”. Actually, half of the development team was female. You sexist!

It’s been 10 years since I’ve worked on it or used it.

I think it’s a little unfair to say that we never considered that possibility. IIRC, we did play around with JS a bit, but it was very crude back then. I don’t think there was anything close to being able to do XmlHttpRequest back then. I mean, frames were freaking new!

I was clearly thinking about REST though (the ’server’ side of AJAX, and clearly the more interesting side of it for WebConnect), as you can see from some of my wanderings here:

http://c2.com/doc/web96-pat/pat.htm

(follow the image link of a hand pointing right)

Notes from folks on the panel are here. Funny looking back 10 years. IIRC, Ward did his presentation by writing on slides on an overhead projector, making it difficult to keep around for posterity (did we even have scanners back then?)

http://c2.com/doc/web96.html

Curiously, I think I generated that HTML for the presentation with a hacked Smalltalk compiler where the presentation itself was a class, and each method was the HTML of the slide body. ahh … the good old days of hacking the IDE and compiler :-)

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